@adamah ,imposters have been around since the begining of time (Satan the first ?) .I wasn't referring to that .I was referring to the fabrication of a character from historians .If Josephus is a liar and Tacitus is a liar then pretty much of what they wrote is lies and in extent you can't believe anything of what ancient historians wrote about anything !
raymond frantz
JoinedPosts by raymond frantz
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97
Did Jesus really exist?
by slimboyfat ini had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?
" initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.
but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.
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97
Did Jesus really exist?
by slimboyfat ini had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?
" initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.
but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.
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raymond frantz
The New Encyclopedia Britannica states that :"In ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadiquate grounds for the first time at the end of the 18th century"
External non Christian historians :Tacitus and Josephus
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97
Did Jesus really exist?
by slimboyfat ini had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?
" initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.
but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.
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raymond frantz
@Lost Generation ,you seem to contradict 99% of modern historians that accept the fact the Jesus was a historical figure
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97
Did Jesus really exist?
by slimboyfat ini had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?
" initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.
but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.
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raymond frantz
Excuse my ignorance but isn't the character fabrication a recent phenomenon ? In antiquity you either existed or you didn't .People didn't go as far as fabricating character in the hope that it would serve someone's arguments 2000 later .Also , Historical criticism is a recent phenomenon, it began in the 17th century and gained popular recognition in the 19th and 20th centuries (wikipedia quote).Also the old Reasoning in the Scriptures argument think is still valid :Why would the first 3 century Christians put them selves through persecution and violent death for a fabricated character?
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97
Did Jesus really exist?
by slimboyfat ini had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?
" initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.
but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.
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raymond frantz
If Jesus didn't exist then many other ancient characters didn't EXIST either Plato,Alexander the Great etc. could be a figment of the imagination of their followers after all there a lot less external testimonies for them than there are for Jesus.
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raymond frantz
the internet and the free trafic of information in a scale never been seen before is a factor that helps many Witnesses to "awake" and see the lies and manipulation this will only increase in intensity as the years go by .The new GB lack any of the charisma of their predessesors ,it is not hard to see even for stupid Witnesses .The Condi court case and the storm of new pedophile scandals that will cost hundrends of millions in payouts and the slowing down of donations and the reaching out for priviledges of new ones .Put all this together and you have already a storm in the making .Yes it will take decades but it will happen
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raymond frantz
gingerbread ,brilliantly worded "internal atrophy" is here to stay
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17
A Phone Call With Watchtower Headquarters on Baptism
by raymond frantz ina phone call with watchtower headquarters on baptism .
i would like to say i big well done to jwstruggle for his consistent battle against the wt .this video is worth watching ,as the baptism issue is i think one of the greatest issues today in the jw deceptions of their flock .it shows also that these guys are not interested in listening or changing one thing about their doctrines or policies .they are happy to carry on disfellowshiping people for as long as it takes to silence the opposition .thousand of families will in effect break down.
sadly this is a self serving machine that will not stop for no one .talking to them ,try to reason with them is a pure waste of time .. do you want results ?if you 're still in .
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raymond frantz
frankiespeakin I don't believe in organized religion and even more in top down organisations ,I believe every single Witness can make a difference especially in Western World without even having to talk to them ,stop the donations report them for their charitable status and see if they'll start listening to the flock
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17
A Phone Call With Watchtower Headquarters on Baptism
by raymond frantz ina phone call with watchtower headquarters on baptism .
i would like to say i big well done to jwstruggle for his consistent battle against the wt .this video is worth watching ,as the baptism issue is i think one of the greatest issues today in the jw deceptions of their flock .it shows also that these guys are not interested in listening or changing one thing about their doctrines or policies .they are happy to carry on disfellowshiping people for as long as it takes to silence the opposition .thousand of families will in effect break down.
sadly this is a self serving machine that will not stop for no one .talking to them ,try to reason with them is a pure waste of time .. do you want results ?if you 're still in .
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raymond frantz
whether consciously or subconsiously in the end it comes down to :Do I really want to stand up for the truth and kicked out of Bethel OR shut up and ignore the issues and live rent free ,99% choose the second .I don't care about the Bethelites they can't help our struggle
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17
A Phone Call With Watchtower Headquarters on Baptism
by raymond frantz ina phone call with watchtower headquarters on baptism .
i would like to say i big well done to jwstruggle for his consistent battle against the wt .this video is worth watching ,as the baptism issue is i think one of the greatest issues today in the jw deceptions of their flock .it shows also that these guys are not interested in listening or changing one thing about their doctrines or policies .they are happy to carry on disfellowshiping people for as long as it takes to silence the opposition .thousand of families will in effect break down.
sadly this is a self serving machine that will not stop for no one .talking to them ,try to reason with them is a pure waste of time .. do you want results ?if you 're still in .
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raymond frantz
Thanks Londo111 I didn't know that was already posted I'll check it now